Speed Seduction Principles: Patience
2012-02-11
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This week I got an email from a reader of mine who seemed to be having some trouble upping his game to the maximum level. He has been consistently closing but it usually takes him more than just one or two dates. After he gave me a detailed explanation of what exactly he was doing on these dates, I realized there are a few extremely important pieces of the puzzle he has been missing in his game. Read on to see my reply to what he wrote and how these hurdles can be overcome.
(Fluffy) Thanks for the detailed response, I can see a lot of points here I think I can help you with.
(From Reader) "My typical first meeting is either online or at some sort of happy hour/mixer event. Usually I'm not able to pull them for sex so I get their number and setup a day 2."
First, most guys don't consistently pull FNLs (first night lays) so I wouldn't worry too much about it. I usually work the field in a similar manner to you. I meet them at a venue and take a number then setup a date later in the week, only in certain circumstances will I try for FNL (she obviously wants it and so do I, or if I have no time to meet up later in the week). If you are only spending 2-3 hours in the venue and you collect 4-5 numbers your time investment per girl is only 30 minutes, which is a good amount of time to at least get them interested in a follow up date. You can get more numbers than this, last month I got 8 numbers at one 2.5 hour party. The other reason I don't like going for FNL is because you have to focus on one girl, so you're putting all your eggs in one basket. With a spray and pray (get lots of numbers) approach, you're more likely to snag at least one that would like a date. Since a date is an investment on their half, it's a good sign that they are much more likely to end up fucking you in the end.
In the past I actually recorded my FNL and FDL (first date lay) info and found that on average, FNLs were actually more expensive than FDLs, required more time to achieve and are much harder to control for consistency. I don't like all the bullshit techniques hocked in the community like time-bridging and whatnot because they sound cool and all but actually do nothing. Time-bridging is going to add an additional 2-3 hours per bridge and an additional 20-30 dollars per bridge, but if you just setup a solid first date you never have to time-bridge and in just 3 hours you can usually get her in bed.
(From Reader) "Day 2 is usually: grab a coffee near my place and go for a walk then like dinner or something. This is all in the afternoon or early evening. Then I try to pull them back to my place by offering to show them my favorite movie, about backpacking. A lot of time they are like sure. I usually try and kiss them then in my elevator or as soon as they get into the door. They never seem to make it easy though and half the time will turn their head away. Often I use my hand on their back of their head to guide them into the appropriate position (is this normal for most guys, do you usually have to guide their head into position with them not making it easy for you???). Usually after that they are pretty enthusiastic about the making out part."
From a glance at this paragraph, I would say that this is where you are making some big mistakes that result in you not pulling a lay straight away. One of the things I emphasize above all else in my techniques is patience and baby steps towards sex. First, in the above examples it seems like you aren't getting any solid small kino (your hand on her lower back) going. Before you k-close a girl it's extremely important to have some really slow paced small kino. This works two angles, 1) it tells her you have patience and aren't trying to rush you're way into her panties, 2) this is where arousal for sex is largely accomplished.
Think of this "small" kino as if the sex has already begun and this is the foreplay you know she wants. Neither one of you has verbalized your desire for sex, but with patient kino, you will work your way there. For a beginner I recommend spending at least 45 minutes on this type of kino. More time spent is also OK and in many cases you can cut it short, but it's better to go the full 45 minutes and gain some consistency in your encounters. When you perfect this the kiss will seem much more natural when it occurs and you likely won't get much resistance.
Another thing I noticed about what you said above is that it seems like you are trying to force the kiss onto her. If you pressure a woman hard for sex she is just going to clam up. I know it's hard to resist doing, but whenever you meet any resistance you need to get in the habit of just relaxing and accepting it.
Just the other night I was at a restaurant with a girl and we started making out. After my normal routine she started sucking my dick but then she stopped halfway through and said she shouldn't because I'm not her boyfriend. I told her that's fine, I'm not in a big hurry or anything. This took her by complete surprise, she told me most guys would never say this and would try almost anything at this point to get her to finish the job. At which point I told her "Well, I'm not going to lie, I really want you to finish, but it's OK if you don't also. I'll survive." Of course, what did she do after this? She finished the blow job.
During this date I felt just like every other guy feels. I really wanted her to finish that BJ, but I also know that being pushy about it won't get me anywhere. Patience is what wins the war of resistance.
(From Reader) "Is this normal for most guys, do you usually have to guide their head into position with them not making it easy for you?"
I do this sometimes, especially with girls who are rough around the edges (a.k.a. sexually experienced). I date a lot of chicks who have work as hostesses (kyabakura girls) and are more accustomed to guys who are sexually aggressive, they will get turned on when I do this usually. They actually kind of expect it sometimes. But for an average girl this might take them by surprise and freak them out. In the future you can use this (on experienced girls), but like I said before, shoot more for slow escalation. Once you get to the point where you know she is aroused but doesn't turn her head you can do this. I also sometimes place my hand under their chin and guide them up to my lips.
(From Reader) "I'm usually able to get to the above position, but when I try to take it further usually I get shut down even after heavy making out. Even when I put in the movie and just hang with them (often in my bedroom) when I try to escalate they just use their hands to block me or hold their clothes on. It generally turns into a stupid and frustrating game where I'm trying to escalate and they'll actively prevent me with their hands. I've tried things like stopping for a bit, then trying again, and usually the same thing happens, even if I waited 20 minutes. I've even gotten up, puttered around, then gone back, and still the same stupid shut down. It's pretty maddening to be honest since logically I know they wouldn't be there on my bed with me if they didn't want to go farther (yes I know women aren't rational, but this is the part I can't seem to get past like every time!!!)."
This is all directly related to what I said above. You need to really work on taking things a bit more slowly in the interaction. The great thing about this "baby step" kino is that it allows you to take every encounter to the limit. When you force kino to happen at an accelerated pace it will set off alarms in her head. She is going to become self-aware of the fact that you are trying to fuck her, and since she doesn't want to fuck you at this point, it will feel awkward for her, and it will make arousal at a later point more difficult as well. Remember the golden question:
Q: When does a woman have sex?
A: When she wants to. (You have to make her want the sex. You have to arouse her.)
The next time you have a date and get her to your place I want you to try this out. Since you seem to be getting them back to your place easily enough, once you get them there, try to slow down your escalation like I mentioned. Don't kiss her in the elevator; just place your hand on her lower back. When you get inside your apartment, sit next to her on the couch and talk to her with your hand on her lower back. Instead of a movie show her a photo album or something a bit more interactive. When you're next to her, just focus on the conversation and don't concern yourself about when you need to kiss her or if you'll be able to fuck her.
(From Reader) "For a video game analogy, I can get to the last level with the final boss but just can't beat the final boss no matter how often I try. This situation described above has happened like 20+ times. Sometimes eventually they'll give me a blow job, but very rarely will I eventually get to penetrate them. Usually they'll say something like they have to leave after an hour or two of this and they'll just go and I won't hear from them again."
I hate it when the bosses don't die...
(From Reader) "I even had one really weird scenario, where the girl was in my bed in her bathing suit on a day 2. I kept trying to make out with her and she'd just turn her head - this happened for like 40 minutes. Figuring I had nothing to lose I start taking off her bikini bottoms and she actively helps me take them off her. She then spread her lower lips and shows me what she likes and I start fingering and going down on her. We haven't kissed at all. After 5 minutes of this (and she is definitely enjoying it) she sits upright and says she has to go. Grabs her stuff and is gone 30 seconds later. No idea where I went wrong on this one even though from what I learned later she had a bf and so might have had some sort of guilt attack?"
Once again this all seems like you're taking things way too quickly. This also sounds like you aren't doing a proper reset when you hit resistance. If you kino her for 45 minutes, get the kiss, move to heavy petting, pull out your dick and then she gives resistance. RESET! Go all the way back to square one of the kino ladder and place your hand on her lower back. Don't try to kiss her again until you get some more solid kino. The second time through doesn't require as much time, but it's important to do a full proper reset. In some situations you really just can't get very far. This is a reality we all have to deal with, but if you take things slowly, you can find her limit. If you then respect that limit, you'll discover she will want to have a follow up date where you can day 3 her.
(From Reader) "I usually start kino as soon as meeting them, light touches on shoulders or arms. Then as things progress I do touches on the leg, etc, especially if we are sitting down together. I seem to really get shut down always when I try to go for the breasts, inside the pants, take off their pants etc."
First, remember the number one best spot for kino: the lower back. This is absolute best place to keep your hands for arousal because you are massaging her sexual organs. When mammals fuck, they fuck doggy style, which means the male ends up touching the female's lower back with his belly in almost all species. Hence, the females have evolved sexual sensitivity to this area and touching it triggers arousal. And the best part is: it doesn't seem as needy as touching a girl elsewhere. Lots of guys try placing hands on the shoulders, holding hands, touching the thighs, but all of these locations are more sexualized (taboo) and commitment oriented than the lower back, and none of them will arouse her as well.
Also remember you don't have to kino immediately either. This just screams of desperation to women. Get to know her a little before you work kino on her. Try to have a solid 30-60 minute passionate conversation with her before ever laying a hand on her. Here are some sample questions I usually go through during the first hour of the interaction:
- Where are you from? What do you do? (Plus relevant threading)
- How many siblings do you have? What's your family like? (Plus relevant threading)
- What's your dream in life? What would you do if you had a million dollars? (Plus relevant threading)
- What do you do for fun? (Plus relevant threading)
I know these questions are extremely cliche, but trust me they work fine. This kind of simple conversation is required to get to know someone and will help you to both get her more comfortable by showing her you're a regular guy and you'll get to know her better as well. Throughout these interactions I want you to "play it cool," which is easy enough to do. Just let go of all outcome dependency, lose yourself in the moment with this girl and don't worry about what happens later in the night. I recommend you watch Rocky (1976) for a good example of playing it cool. Especially the scene where he brings Adrian back to his place and she starts freaking out about it, it's a perfect example of rock solid damage control.
(From Reader) "I guess I'm really hitting hard last minute resistance, but I seriously don't know what to do about it. I'd also love to be able to do all this on a day 1, and not have to try a day 2. Any advice or thoughts on where I'm going wrong would be appreciated. I don't have a problem with the first 80% of the game; it's the end stages that seem to be messing with me. Maybe I need to learn how to arouse them better?"
It seems you're aware of the problem at hand, which is your approach to kino/arousal. This is a difficult aspect of game to perfect and not too long ago I was in the same exact boat as you. From a guy's perspective it's hard to understand the arousal mechanisms in a woman's body and mind, because all it takes for us is the smell of a woman to get a boner sometimes. To reiterate everything I just said, here is a list for you to follow on your next date, with emphasis on building a connection slowly.
- Solid passionate conversation (30-60 minutes) (no kino)
- Baby step kino on the lower back / shoulders / arms / hands / legs (45 minutes)
- K-close then move slowly to heavy escalation. Spend a good 5-10 minutes just kissing and petting.
- F-close, if things are in order at this point you should be able to tear clothes off and bump uglies.
To be honest, I touched on all these points quite heavily in my book, "The Cheat Codes to Seduction," and his sticking points sound just like Gunther's (one of the main characters in the book). I really suggest you guys give this book a try. It's funny. It's interesting. It has a lot of useful pickup knowledge and theory. And best of all, it's written by a REAL guy, not some shady *pickup* corporation trying to con you. Not some guy who was born rich and handsome who just happens to fuck a lot of chicks. It was written by a bald guy who can barely afford clean underwear... but still manages to consistently fuck some of the hottest chicks on the planet.
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